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Drakes - Do they need a nerf?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 8 post(s)
Exploited Engineer	Posted - 2010.10.24 16:11:00 - [1] Originally by: OT Smithers CCP would never have initiated this nonsense if the decision had noit already been made -- the Drake is gonna be nerfed and nerfed HARD. CCP gave the reason: they do not want missile spam in fleet PvP. No need to nerf the Drake. Just make missiles do zero damage against other players. Problem of missile spam in fleet PvP solved!
Exploited Engineer	Posted - 2010.10.24 19:33:00 - [2] Originally by: Hinaelark I would think that this would either change the way that missiles work currently or add a lot of calculations that aren't currently done. The current "homing" missile flight path calculation isn't necessary in about 99% of all cases and doesn't make that much of a difference in the remaining 1%. Just keep track of where and when the missile was launched, and where the target is. Missile damage is applied as soon as (current missile flight time * missile velocity) equals or exceeds distance between point of launch and current target location. These calculations are so simple that they shouldn't really put any load on the server, unless there's a million missiles in flight at a given time. No calculations necessary for missile acceleration or the homing algorithm. And if anyone says that this isn't realistic: Duh. Autocannons apparently fire projectiles that have no flight time. Missile damage is influenced by an absolute velocity (something that doesn't exist in space). Etc. Etc.
Exploited Engineer	Posted - 2010.10.25 17:18:00 - [3] Edited by: Exploited Engineer on 25/10/2010 17:21:36 Originally by: Hinaelark Yes, that would eliminate the acceleration and homing of missiles but then how would defender missiles work, or would those just need to be eliminated? They would work pretty much like they do now. They get fired automatically if a hostile missile aimed at you gets within x km and use the same simplified flight path/time calculation as a regular missile. Not much would change.
Exploited Engineer	Posted - 2010.10.25 18:10:00 - [4] Originally by: Okuu Reiuji Find the formula of missile damage/hit calculation. Missile flight speed does not factor into damage/hit.
Exploited Engineer	Posted - 2010.10.25 18:46:00 - [5] Edited by: Exploited Engineer on 25/10/2010 18:47:55 Originally by: Okuu Reiuji Really? Always thought that ship velocity calculated relatively to missile speed, not the overall value. Yes, really. What matters for missile damage is the absolute velocity (something that doesn't exist in real-life space, but hey.) of the target vs. the explosion velocity of the missile. Otherwise, having fast missiles would really suck against slow targets, wouldn't it?
Exploited Engineer	Posted - 2010.10.25 18:48:00 - [6] Originally by: Shin Dari Drakes don't have gank. What, you never bored a target to death, or had it die from fits of laughter or old age?
Exploited Engineer	Posted - 2010.10.25 19:12:00 - [7] Originally by: rekcuf bmuD Fail attempt to misrepresent my position. If you haven't noticed, an arty cane with a MWD has about 0 pg left for a tank. The same is true of a beam harbinger or a railgun brutix. The same should be with the drake. If the drake then does the same kind of DPS as the first three, sure.
Exploited Engineer	Posted - 2010.10.25 20:36:00 - [8] Originally by: rekcuf bmuD Actually a drake does more DPS than an arty cane, beam harbinger, or railgun brutix @ 70km with at least double the buffer. Maybe. But the Drake is a one trick pony as far as damage types go. Don't do kinetic damage and instantly lose 25% of your dps. The other ships either do two damage types at once, or have some options when selecting their damage type. If you're good with a smartbomb, you could also nullify some of the Drakes DPS - something that the other ships don't have to worry about. Also, if you're shorter ranged, you can burn right towards the Drake without having to worry about transversal speed.
Exploited Engineer	Posted - 2010.10.25 21:00:00 - [9] Edited by: Exploited Engineer on 25/10/2010 21:01:11 Originally by: rekcuf bmuD Its one thing I never liked about some caldari ships, where their only effective damage comes from one type of missile. I wish that 5% per level bonus was applied to all damage types. That's what Ravens are for. And they actually get 33% more DPS at Caldari battleship 5. Oh, and those shield-tanked Drakes with their inflated sigs probably make excellent targets for a Ravens cruise missile batteries, which can hit from well above the Drakes maximum engagement range. I guess that's the counter for Drake fleets.
Exploited Engineer	Posted - 2010.10.25 21:24:00 - [10] Edited by: Exploited Engineer on 25/10/2010 21:27:13 Originally by: rekcuf bmuD Compared to what? All I see is a 25% RoF bonus at caldari BS V for ravens. The 25% ROF (actually, this cuts 25% off the time between two launches) translates into 33% additional DPS, since it allows you to launch 33% more missiles in a given time. The Drake only get 25% additional DPS through its +25% kinetic missile damage bonus.
Exploited Engineer	Posted - 2010.10.26 20:51:00 - [11] Originally by: SPACESHIPS LAWYER Remove drone bay from drake, caldari should not have drones. You can have my drones when I can have your missiles and shields. Quote: change 5 slots from missle to turrets, remove shield resist and missle bonuses and give a hybrid rate of fire bonus and a capacitor bonus. Turn it into a sucky version of a Gallente BC minus the drones? No thanks.
Exploited Engineer	Posted - 2010.10.28 19:07:00 - [12] Originally by: CCP Chronotis If the reason is imbalance in the ship itself or with the missiles, then its typically something that is straight forward to change in a much shorter time frame than our longer term investigation and refactoring of the missile system for example which would take significantly more man-hours (lots and lots comparatively but it will be done someday). I believe that by simplifying missile flight path calculations to keeping track of the missiles point of origin, its current flight time, maximum velocity, and current target position, the CPU load required for keeping track of them could be reduced while still retaining the main aspects of missile combat (delayed damage, ability to destroy missiles with smartbombs or defender missiles, etc). Quote: This could be vindictive in that they are deliberately causing load to utilize it as a weapon in lag resilient setups or we prefer the better scenario that we need to add a little more incentive to group weapons which is also being explored as well. Unfortunately, missiles provide a strong incentive not to group them - avoiding overkill (which wastes ammo and dps). With guns, overkill only wastes a few shots from the current salvo, but with missiles, you waste some of the damage from the salvo that killed the target as well as any missiles currently in flight towards the now-dead target. This leads to the problem that there is quite a bit of incentive (dps-wise and ammo-wise) to leave the launchers ungrouped or use small groups only, while there's only the incentive of convenience to group missile launcher (especially since defender missiles are basically never used in PvP). Hm. Replace defender missiles with point defense turrets (that take neither turret nor launcher slots and thus can be used in utility high slots) that fire fast enough to shoot down lots of individual missiles, but only one if the missiles arrive as a group?
Exploited Engineer	Posted - 2010.10.29 14:00:00 - [13] Originally by: Furb Killer Wait there is a counter to supercaps? Unfortunately, EVE's supercaps don't suffer from the trench run syndrome.
Exploited Engineer	Posted - 2010.10.30 09:29:00 - [14] Originally by: Kiran No other battlecruiser has these bonuses applied other than shield boost on the Cyclone. Um, I think the Ferox would like to have a word with you. And the Prophecy and the Brutix have bonuses to armor (resistance/repair).
Exploited Engineer	Posted - 2010.10.30 09:46:00 - [15] Originally by: darius mclever and the myrm (rep bonus). so it is actually just the harbinger and the hurricane, which dont get a tanking bonus. True. However, I believe resistance bonuses are generally out of line with damage bonuses. A +25% resistance bonus actually requires an opposing ship to do 33% more damage, while most "pure" damage bonuses only give 5% more damage per skill point. (Exception: ROF bonuses - +25% ROF actually increases DPS by 33%). This could easily be fixed by lowering any shield/armor resistance bonuses of ships to 4% per skill point instead of 5%.
Exploited Engineer	Posted - 2010.10.30 11:53:00 - [16] Originally by: darius mclever did you notice that most ships with active tanking bonus get 7.5% per level? summing up to 37.5% more tanked dmg? the only disadvantage is that resist bonuses also help RR. True, however, to take advantage of this bonus, the pilot actually needs to run a repairer/booster. It's not "always on" like a resistance bonus.
Exploited Engineer	Posted - 2010.10.30 21:00:00 - [17] Edited by: Exploited Engineer on 30/10/2010 21:02:02 Originally by: Rhinanna The whole point of this is that you can't fight drakes at range..... Drakes get no range bonuses for their missiles. Anything that can fire HMs/HMLs and gets some sort of range bonus (starting with Caracals) can out-range a Drake. Anything that fires cruise missiles can, too. Did I mention that buffer- or passive-tanked Drakes have huge signatures?
Exploited Engineer	Posted - 2010.10.31 08:45:00 - [18] Originally by: Keras Authion So, why aren't you lolbubbling the drakes and melting them with more powerful short-range weapons? Or MWD away yourself when the Drakes give chase? Last I heard lolbubbles don't affect MWDs, and in a race between a Caracal and a Drake, my money's on the Caracal. Also, if the Drakes chase you, their effective range drops and your effective range (if using missiles) increases. Additionally, keep the difference in cost in mind. For one fitted Drake, you can get, what, three or four fitted Caracals?
Exploited Engineer	Posted - 2010.10.31 11:30:00 - [19] Originally by: Aerilis You try coordinating 20 scorps against 100 targets lol. And under your logic, scorps counter everything. FOF missiles, Smartbombs, ...
Exploited Engineer	Posted - 2010.11.03 15:40:00 - [20] Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Originally by: Arbiter Reformed i vote drop resist bonus for a rof bonus amiright! I would actually support that. Heck, I'd exchange the resistance and kinetic missile damage bonus for a +25% ROF bonus at BC 5.

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